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Dr. Eugene Mallove's last radio interview (Feb. 3, 2004)

In the last years of his life, Dr. Eugene Mallove became a passionate supporter of Aetherometry and the aetherometric massfree technologies. He talked about it extensively on his last late-night "Coast to coast" show with George Noori. Here are some select excerpts (minutes are counted from the beginning of the second hour of the show):

[13: 05]

GN: If there were an alien civilization (...) a hundred thousand years ahead of us, what kind of energy sources do you think they would be using?

EM: Vacuum energy, there is no question about it. There is absolutely no doubt, zero doubt in my mind -- and I'm the author of the Starflight Handbook, a mainstream technical popular book on interstellar flight, by the way -- I would say all the proposals that I and Dr. Matloff collected in that book are rather obsolete (...)

GN: And vacuum-energy is also called space-energy, right?

EM: Space energy, Aether energy. There is an Aether -- that's the bottom line -- there is an Aether, pervading space. It is not the Aether that was dismissed, properly, the electromagnetic Aether that the Michelson-Morley experiment of 1887 --

GN: Or the kind that puts us to sleep --

EM: Or the kind that puts us to sleep. There's a pervading massfree energy in all of the Universe -- there's no such thing as a Big Bang, by the way -- a highly questionable theory. (...) Basically, Aether energy is at the root of everything. (...) The Aether is responsible for the creation and destruction of matter, it is responsible for life itself, OK? all particles are made of Aether, they are not little hard things, they are - the things that we call particles today, electrons and protons and so forth - are nothing but special geometries of the massfree Aether that are in a form that makes them have an inertial quality. In other words, makes them have mass. But the largest body of energy in the Universe is definitely the 'vacuum'. The 'vacuum' is where it is. Some people have called the energy, or have interpreted it from Physics' perspectives, as you said, zero-point energy. I don't believe that that theory, the zero-point energy theory, is the proper Aether theory. But it's nonetheless a good starting point. But the bottom line is, there are devices today, on this planet, in laboratories, not in government laboratories, that -- I mean, I don't know whether the government has these things, I doubt that they do, but OK, maybe they have them - but the individuals and research teams working on devices that do not employ hydrogen for anomalous nuclear reactions, but employ nothing but electrical discharges and collections of what Reich had called "orgone energy".

GN: Mmm hmm

EM: these things are absolutely real, they have been verified, there is theoretical foundation for them, I have observed these experiments, I attest to them, there is even a new form in the latest issue of our magazine, issue # 53. (...) It's titled "Solar Power by Day and by Night". Now, Dr. Paulo and Alexandra Correa in Toronto, Canada, have managed to create a special type of what Reich would have called an Orgone Accumulator, but they call it a Hybrid Orgone Accumulator, that sits, around-the- clock, generating power in a small Stirling engine. I worked with them, by the way, to calibrate, to make sure that the experiments are being done properly. They go round-the-clock running a Stirling engine, as though -- as though -- there were a source of 2 watts of thermal energy inside the metal Faraday cage. Now that's vacuum-energy for sure.

GN: Someone's gonna get a Nobel Prize one day for this.

EM: Some day, yes.

Dr. Mallove is quite clear in stating his views: that, as far as he knows and can surmise, the solution to the energy problem does not lie about in any government laboratories; that the solution is ultimately one that has already come from engineering the 'vacuum', and more specifically, from an understanding of massfree energy, which he calls Aether. He specifically states that this technology harks back to the maligned work of Wilhelm Reich - and that he has worked with the Correas on the development of a special variant - the HYBORAC/Stirling thermomechanical technology - which, to date, outputs, day and night, an average 2 watts of sensible heat, with comparable daytime and nighttime thermal output and work performances.

Next, he refers to the Correas' patented plasma work on the autogenously pulsed abnormal glow discharge (PAGD):


EM: [...] There's absolutely no doubt that the devices -- patented devices, no less - by Dr. Paulo and Alexandra Correa in Canada are over-unity, OK? This is clear a case where vacuum-energy can be seen, in technically published information that is irrefutable, as far as I'm concerned -- and I've personally been at the lab and seen it -- there's no doubt that these machines exist. Now Steve [Greer] would say that the government has much more advanced technology, which they've maybe learned from UFOs or something.

GN: Right.

EM: Maybe; but what good does it do us? Is it really doing us any good? No, obviously not. My general feeling about it is that the government does not have such things."

Next, Dr. Mallove proceeds to describe the tribulated history of the concept of an Aether, how the advent of Special Relativity dethroned the old electromagnetic Aether and legated to present-day physics the erroneous notion that Space could exist without energy, independently from it and in its absence:


GN: Dr. Mallove, let's talk a little bit more, then, about energy category #2, and that is zero-point energy which we touched upon a bit -- space energy. What is it? What's out there that does this?

EM: Well, here we have to talk about -- just name -- the fundamental theories on which mainstream physicists and chemists rely, (...) for the entire foundation of our scientific world, (...) and these theories are, at present: Quantum Mechanics, OK? --

GN: Mmm hmmm

EM: and Relativity, the Special Theory of Relativity -

GN: Right

EM: - that changed everyone's perspective, starting around 1920, when Einstein began to become prominent. He had his theory of Special Relativity published in 1905, and later his General Relativity Theory, a theory of how so-called Space-Time is curved in four dimensions, to give gravity and so forth -- you know, there are many reasons why he became very prominent, we need not get into them, but obviously he did become prominent, and the Theory of Relativity is given a lot of credence. And it basically says, as we all know, E = mc2. That's a simple equation that everyone can understand: that mass times the speed of light squared is the equivalent amount of energy in matter. And we rely on that, generally speaking, for explaining nuclear reactions.

GN: And there is a lot of energy that comes out of that.

EM: Oh, absolutely. There is no doubt that nuclear reactions, both fission -- [which] gave us the atomic bomb, the fission bomb -- and then thermonuclear fusion energy...

GN: Mmm hmmm

EM: ...from the hydrogen bomb, and the attempts, of course, by the hot-fusion community -- the 20- billion dollar attempts, since 1950 -- to tame it and bring it down into large Tokamak-type reactors. However, it turns out that, after a long consideration by critics -- and there have been many critics of Special Relativity, very sane people, not anti-semites who were against Einstein because he was Jewish, OK? there were those --

GN: OK, I understand.

EM: But -- you know, the Nazis called it "Jewish science", for example -- but people who were careful critics of Relativity have not been listened to, OK? and have just been brushed aside, because it was stated that the experiments all confirmed all aspects of Relativity, Special Relativity, and there could be no doubt about it. A guy from Caltech said that, David Goodstein, the same man who said, in recent times, that -- you know -- he really had doubts about cold fusion. OK? So he doesn't know what he's talking about.

GN: Mmm hmm. Right.

EM: But it turns out that Relativity is fundamentally flawed. It basically introduced the concept that there was no Aether, OK? -- and it was true that there was no electromagnetic Aether -- this, the Michelson-Morley experiment and some other experiments, in my view, the view of others who I learned from, have proved that there was no Aether whereby electromagnetic waves had to vibrate in space to produce what we see of light and so forth. But this threw out the possibility that there was another kind of Aether, a mass-free Plenum, that did not operate on electromagnetic principles, that the Michelson- Morley experiment could never detect, OK?

In the next segment, Dr. Mallove introduces the listener to Wilhelm Reich and the critical 1941 Reich-Einstein experiment - which was reproduced by the Correas and analyzed by them in a report published by Dr. Mallove as a feature in Infinite Energy IE#37, 2001:

EM: Wilhelm Reich, brilliant man that he was, an unusual man -- because remember, he did come out of a sexual/psychiatric orientation, right? Sigmund Freud --

GN: Yes.

EM: So who is some person like that to say anything about physics?

GN: Right.

EM: Well -- [both laugh] -- in 1941, brilliant fellow that he was, he brought some interesting observations to Einstein. He actually had four and a half hours with Einstein -- by the way, this meeting is virtually absent from all accounts of the biography of Einstein.

GN: Why? Because of what happened to Reich?

EM: Because Reich was later disparaged -- he died in prison, remember?

GN: Yeah, [inaudible]

EM: He was turned into, just like cold fusion, an 'insane pathological man'.

GN: You think Einstein took some ideas from him?

EM: No, no, not at all.


EM: Einstein -- he asked professor Einstein -- a colleague, of course, in the fight against fascism -- remember, this was early 1941, before the United States got into the war --

GN: Right, OK

EM: Of course, both of them were opposed to the Nazis, obviously -- and --

GN: And well aware of what was going on

EM: and well aware of the possibility... So Einstein, to his credit, felt that all possibilities should be explored in the possible quest to find ways to deal with, perhaps, war technology and what have you. You know, his letter[s] later on to President Roosevelt obviously helped the Manhattan Project get going. But here was Reich showing him a simple experiment whereby a mercury thermometer, very accurate mercury thermometer, on the surface of what we call a Faraday cage -- a steel enclosure -- was higher, and remained higher throughout the day, than a similar mercury thermometer suspended in air. OK? Now, this sounds -- your listeners even who don't know about this, may say, well, that sounds crazy; what, what, what could that possibly show?

GN: Hm.

EM: Well, careful experiments by Dr. Paulo and Alexandra Correa in Canada, confirming this type of experiment, and in fact giving it an even worse bias against being seen -- in other words, not having the orgone-accumulating layers of material around the Faraday cage, just using bare steel -- steel boxes, so to speak, in their laboratory, they have found persisting round-the-clock elevated temperatures on the metal Faraday cage, even in a darkened room. Now when I first saw their Aether motors and their PAGD, I was obviously motivated to go back and study Reich. Prior to that, I had no interest in Reich. But I wondered: God, I mean, could Einstein have missed, in 1941, a profound discovery? And the answer is: absolutely yes.

GN: Yeah

EM: We covered this in our issue 37. He brought it to Einstein, Einstein confirmed -- I repeat, confirmed -- that there was a three-tenths of a degree or more elevation on the Faraday cage. But his assistant -- Einstein's assistant -- Leopold Infeld, pooh-poohed it; he did some half-baked experiments to suggest that: oh, yes, the simple explanation as to why this elevated temperature is there

GN: Mm hm

EM: and he pushed Einstein away from thinking about it, and thus broke the connection, the critical connection, between Einstein and Reich -- which, if it had persisted, and if Einstein had behaved himself, and continued the correspondence -- Reich did write many letters, technical letters, to Einstein, pleading with him to re-evaluate the assertions, the glib assertions, of Leopold Infeld -- much as today, in the late 20th century and early 21st, we are pleading with scientists and political leaders to re-evaluate the absurd, glib dismissal of cold fusion. Well, Einstein never did that. And so Reich went much further with this energy, the manifestation of Aether energy, which initially was this elevated thermal anomaly on a very simple experiment. So, just like Galileo with his experiment of dropping a cannonball and a smaller object from the leaning tower of Pisa

GN: Mmm hmm, right

EM: -- [inaudible] a very simple experiment showing simultaneous arrival at the ground, making a profound change in paradigm -- a simple experiment with a thermometer, which I have done myself, by the way, to my own satisfaction, in my own basement, and found the same persisting thermal anomaly, and that's not all: when you elaborate that simple experiment and other experiments that Reich did with electroscopes, gold-leaf electroscopes, you find huge anomalies occurring in Faraday cages. And Dr. Paulo and Alexandra Correa have in their laboratory done many further experiments to clarify some of the many, many confusions that Reich himself had about this.

In a brilliant piece of scientific journalism, Dr. Mallove leads the listener from the death of the old, electromagnetic, luminiferous Aether, directly to the work of one of the discoverers of the new massfree Aether, Wilhelm Reich, while putting in confrontation two different scientists and their theories - Einstein's, which had brought about the death of the old Aether, and Reich's, which had initiated a path towards the new understanding of the Aether, or the scientific pursuit of the New Aether.

Then, he directs the listener to the immense technological change opened up by understanding the New Aether - to the work of the Correas in reproducing Reich's Orgone Motor, in developing it beyond what Reich left it at, in providing a new understanding and engineering of the two fundamental manifestations of this Aether (the electric and the nonelectric), and in demonstrating that a minimum energy of the electric Aether is responsible for the cosmic microwave background - thus invalidating all cosmological Big-Bang theories:

EM: They [the Correas] have established the irrefutable presence of an Aether, a massfree Aether that can be analyzed with thermometers, electroscopes, which shows that it is possible to make little motors that work on it. Earlier, they had this patented technology that I referred to, called the PAGD, which has three US patents, one Israel patent, and so forth, that has had pulses occurring in vacuum between aluminum plates in a glass cylinder, and produced more energy out than in.

GN: Would you say that this Aether is a normal occurrence in the Universe, and it's a natural thing?

EM: It is THE -- it's the foundation of the Universe. There is no other foundation of the Universe. The myth of Relativity -- and Relativity is wrong, it is incorrect -- indeed, its equations describe certain experiments, accelerator experiments, very accurately, there's no doubt about that --

GN: An outcome, I guess, right?

EM: but this -- the theory can be wrong, in other words, an equation can give you a very precise match between an experimental result in an accelerator, as an example, and a theory, but that does not mean that the theory is fundamentally correct. In fact it [the relativistic theory in question] is fundamentally, absolutely wrong. There is no such thing as non-simultaneity and so forth, it's all unfortunately a myth. One thing is for sure: if you have a motor that is working, as I've seen in their [the Correas'] laboratory, off an orgone accumulator -- in other words, one wire coming from a Faraday cage, running a motor, through special electronics (patent applied for, [inaudible])

GN: Mm hmm

EM: and this motor is running from an orgone accumulator, that is from an Aether accumulator, of latent heat, as they would say -- latent heat from the Aether, as one component of the Aether -- that's it, that ends the whole entire myth of Special Relativity.

GN: Is there any exhaust coming off this motor?

EM: No, there's nothing.

GN: Nothing.

EM: The only thing that the Correas insist upon, as far as correspondence of one very fundamental law that we are all aware of, the Conservation of Energy law, they are 100% behind the conservation of energy. Their physics is an energy-based physics; Time and Space are subsets of energy. Energy is the primary reality of the Universe. The energetic Aether is the primary reality of the Universe.

And Dr. Mallove proceeds directly to introducing the listener to the fundamentals of the aetherometric theory of particles. In particular, he makes allusion to the finite-flux toroidal structures described by aetherometric theory - in the book Nanometric Functions of Bioenergy and in the Correas' unpublished work in nuclear physics - and how they have permitted the Correas to resolve the deep structure of nucleons as well as the role of chemical bonds:

EM: (...) Mass -- OK, the mass-energy that there is also in nuclear reactions, comes ultimately from the energy of the Aether. There is no such thing as a particle that is a point particle with a mass. Currently, physics says -- modern physics says -- the electron is an infinitesimal point that has a charge and that has a mass. And everyone in physics, from the most advanced universities to the lowliest highschool student, learns that the electron charge is equal to the proton charge -- i.e. equal and opposite, opposite sign, OK? -- and that it has a certain mass, which is about two thousand times less than that of the proton, and that has a spin and so forth, but this infinitesimal point is a fiction, is an absolute fiction. Electrons have structure, they are structured Aether constructs. And protons are, too, and all the other particles are -- there really, for all practical purposes, can be no other generic kind of explanation. I am not suggesting, by the way, that Dr. Correa and Alexandra have the ultimate perfect theory -- nor would they, OK?

GN: I understand.

EM: They're open to criticism, they have a website where people can discuss things with them, but I must tell you that they are very definitely in the right, going substantially in the right direction; they are publishing work which is exemplary, pioneering -- I hope some day they are blessed with a reward for it, because up to this point, all they've been rewarded by is abuse; in fact, abuse even by people in the cold fusion field, I regret to say.

GN: That's interesting.

EM: Right. It's like a dont -- you know, it's -- even the new-energy field, I regret to say, has had turf wars, and they're stupid, OK?

GN: Sure. There's politics in everything.

EM: Right. But -- but Aether, as far as advanced space flight, I will seriously have to revise the Starflight Handbook some day.

GN: And what does it do in terms of speed, Eugene?

EM: There's no -- there's no limitation on speed. The myth of "no massfull object could go faster than the speed of light" is just that, it's a myth. Fundamentally, there is no limit for a spaceship made out of mass, OK? -- namely us, or a rocket ship -- to go as fast as we would ever particularly want it to go.

GN: And, and in that case --

EM: Hundreds of time faster than the speed of light.

GN: Then, then you may indeed be a time-traveler.

EM: No, because the -- there's another myth of Relativity. The Twin Paradox is -- is also a myth, OK? It is just wrong; the time dilation is not part of the Universe, it just isn't. No matter how many times they will tell you about muons changing their decay patterns coming through the atmosphere, and so forth, and this proves, supposedly, time dilation. They can say it as long as they want, but there is no such thing. Time dilation is a myth. (...) Now listen, since there is no such thing as Space-Time, which is this combined entity that came out of Special Relativity, there can be no such thing as a warped Space- Time that gives you black holes, or gives you singularities such as Steven Hawking talks about, or others in cosmology talk about. This has gotten into complete megalomania and insanity, but let me tell you: the joke -- the cosmic joke of all time -- is on 20th -- late 20th century and early 21st century modern physics, because history will record that they went off on a tangent, with Relativity, Special and General, and they completely fooled themselves, at the very same time making fun of such things that were giving them a hint as to the alternate physics -- namely, low-energy nuclear reactions, Aether energy, what Reich came up with. These people ought to go back to Science 101. Science 101 is this: experiment always overrules theory."

Now, Dr. Mallove comes to the crux of his own politics of energy and his role as president of the New Energy Foundation and Editor of Infinite Energy, where he must keep an open mind to very diverse forefront research developments:

Hour 3


GN: Now, are these three categories [cold fusion, Aether energy, ambient energy] an evolutionary stage, or can we just go to the best one and try to work on that?

EM: Well, I think all three should be pursued. [...]

GN: And I guess any one of them would be better than what we have right now?

EM: Oh, of course; it will be free energy. In all cases, it would be free energy. I will draw an analogy for your listeners with the computer revolution, a personal-computer revolution. At one time -- certainly when I was doing my doctoral work at Harvard -- we had to pay for the amount of CPU minutes or hours logged in processing Fortran programs, where you'd give them the card deck, and of course the mainframe computer would click away, and a certain amount of CPU time would -- would click away, and you'd pay for it, your research budget would pay for it. Now we have things sitting on our desks that are constantly computing, even with the screen-saver, say, or some other problem, or database, or any other kind of computer operation, and you're not paying for the CPU minutes that your Pentium or your PowerBook PC is on;

GN: Mmm hmm

EM: You are paying for the electricity, but the paradigm of infinite computation in which you do not pay for computer minutes is there. The same thing's gonna happen with energy. That's the ultimate paradigm shift: that there will be no continuing charge for energy. You will ultimately pay, of course, for the device --

GN: Right.

EM: you know, for the unit that you put in your house, whether it's with low-energy nuclear reactions, Aether energy,

GN: Mmm hmm

EM: environmental energy, whatever it is -- or the new solar energy, as we would say, caused by the Aether, OK?

GN: But you never have to worry about going and -- and not having your energy available.

EM: Right, it will be infinite energy, literally -- which is why our magazine is appropriately titled. The establishment mocks that title, Infinite Energy, but that's what energy is: it's infinite, and it should be free, and it is free; life is free, in some sense -- I mean, life takes from the environment things that it needs: air, and water, and, it turns out, Aether energy as well, and that's how life exists, and how life started, OK? Life will eventually return to a -- a system of governance, on this planet and elsewhere in the Universe, that does not depend on constant paying some authority for energy. That era will come -- it can't come soon enough, needless to say. And obviously, your listeners have great imaginations: it doesn't take a genius to realize that the world will be turned completely upside-down when this era arrives. I do not believe it is the evil oil companies holding us back. That is not, in my opinion, what is happening. What is absolutely happening, though, is academic stupidity,

GN: Mm hmm

EM: the academic-government complex that started the mythology that only one theory can be correct, Quantum Mechanics is the only thing that can be correct, Relativity is the only thing that can be correct, and just as the MIT professor, may he not rest in peace, Herman Feschbach, who said "I have 50 years of experience in nuclear physics, and I know what's possible and what's impossible" -- that is the standard stance that is in the way of progress, and it prevents, for example, venture capitalists from looking objectively at experiments. They just go to someone else, after you tell them "OK, low-energy nuclear reactions is correct", they go to their favorite physicist and the favorite physicist says: "Oh, I know this is impossible", and of course since he has

GN: Mm hmm

EM: PhD's and is with MIT or Caltech or some other place, he's believed, and the outsiders are not believed.

GN: And the funding stops.

EM: That's the essence of it, and that's why, my good friends, we need -- for New Energy Foundation, and for many other people, we need the research funds. That's the choke-point. You cannot expect this work to go ahead for free. It won't happen. It just will not happen. And I know that the New Age people and the groupies of -- of many of your other wonderful programs may think that this is just gonna happen by osmosis and the reason it's not happening is because there must be something wrong with the theories and the experiments. Not true. There is nothing wrong with the theories and the experiments. But there is everything wrong with the fact that there isn't enough money in this field, and the new Energy Foundation hopes to change that."

This was his vision for the New Energy Foundation and his call for help. And he left the scientific establishment with this prediction about the work of the Correas -


EM: I will tell you this: the combination of what Tesla did, with Tesla coils and other things, and what Reich did later, the modern Teslas -- namely Dr. Paulo and Alexandra Correa, using that work, and respectfully citing it, very precisely citing it, and writing this up in monographs that can be downloaded from their website, they have formed what you might call a very precise theory of the Aether; it's not just handwaving, it's equations, it's experiments above all, and it is the legacy that Tesla left us. Some day, Tesla and Reich will be looked upon as some of the most important scientists of all time; whereas right today, of course, they are pooh-poohed completely by the establishment.

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